Cameron: Jon, ndinonakidzwa chaizvo nekutaura kwatinogara tichiita nezveBhaibheri. * Patakapedzisira kutaura, wakabvunza mubvunzo nezveUmambo hwaMwari. Waida kuziva kuti nei Zvapupu zvaJehovha zvichiti Umambo hwacho hwakatanga kutonga muna 1914.

Jon: Ndizvozvo, ndakaverenga rimwe bhuku renyu raiti Umambo hwaMwari hwakatanga kutonga muna 1914. Ndizvo zvakazoita kuti ndibvunze nokuti munoti zvose zvamunodzidzisa zvinobva muBhaibheri.

Cameron: Ehe, ndizvozvo.

Jon: Ndakaverenga Bhaibheri rose. Asi handiyeuki ndichiona vhesi inotaura nezvegore ra1914. Saka ndakaenda paBhaibheri repaIndaneti ndokutsvaka “1914,” asi hapana payakabuda.

Cameron: Jon, pane zvinhu zviviri zvakanaka zvawakaita. Chokutanga ndechokuti wakaverenga Bhaibheri rose. Ndofunga Shoko raMwari unozorida.

Jon: Ndizvozvo. Hapana bhuku rakaita seBhaibheri.

Cameron: Ndinobvumirana newe. Chechipiri ndechokuti wakashandisa Bhaibheri pawaitsvaka mhinduro yemubvunzo wako. Zvawakaita ndizvo chaizvo zvatinokurudzirwa neBhaibheri kuti tiite parinoti: ‘Rambai muchitsvaka’ kunzwisisa. * Uri kuita zvakanaka chaizvo.

Jon: Waita hako. Ndinoda kuramba ndichidzidza. Ndakatombotsvaka-tsvaka ndokuwana panotaurwa nezva1914 mubhuku iri ratiri kudzidza. Rinotaura nezvehope dzemumwe mambo—akarota nezvemuti mukuru wakatemwa ndokubva wazotungira, handichanyatsoyeuki zvakanaka.

Cameron: Hoo, horaiti. Uprofita hwacho huri muchitsauko 4 chaDhanieri. Hunotaura nezvehope dzakarotwa naMambo Nebhukadhinezari weBhabhironi.

Jon: Ehee, ndihwo. Ndakaverenga uprofita hwacho kakawanda. Asi kutaura shuwa, handisati ndaona kuti hunobatana papi neUmambo hwaMwari kana kuti negore ra1914.

Cameron: Ufungeka Jon, kunyange muprofita Dhanieri akanga asinganzwisisi zvinonyatsorehwa nemashoko aakafemerwa kuti anyore!

Jon: Hoo?

Cameron: Ehe. Pano pana Dhanieri 12:8, anoti: “Zvino ini ndakazvinzwa, asi handina kuzvinzwisisa.”

Jon: Ufunge ndaiti ndini ndega. Inga zvinonyaradza.

Cameron: Chokwadi ndechokuti Dhanieri haana kuzvinzwisisa nokuti nguva yaMwari yainge isati yakwana yokuti vanhu vanyatsonzwisisa zvairehwa  nouprofita huri mubhuku raDhanieri. Asi panguva ino yatiri kurarama, tinogona kunyatsozvinzwisisa.

Jon: Sei uchidaro?

Cameron: Ona zvatinoverenga mundima inotevera yacho. Dhanieri 12:9 inoti: “Mashoko acho akavanzwa uye akanamwa kusvikira kunguva yokuguma.” Saka uprofita uhwu hwaizongonzwisiswa pave paya, ‘munguva yokuguma.’ Uye sezvatichaona nokukurumidza pakudzidza kwatiri kuita Bhaibheri, uchapupu hwose huripo hunoratidza kuti iye zvino tava kurarama munguva yacho. *

Jon: Saka unganditsanangurirawo here uprofita huri muna Dhanieri?

Cameron: Ndichaedza nepandinogona napo.

Cameron: Rega nditange nokutaura muchidimbu zvakaonekwa naMambo Nebhukadhinezari muhope dzake, tozotaura zvadzinoreva.

Jon: Horaiti.

Cameron: Muhope dzake, Nebhukadhinezari akaona muti wakakura kwazvo wainge wakareba zvokusvika kudenga. Akabva anzwa mutumwa waMwari achirayira kuti muti wacho utemwe. Zvisinei, Mwari akati chigutsa chawo chisiyiwe chiri muvhu. Pashure ‘penguva nomwe,’ muti wacho waizotungira. * Uprofita uhwu hwakatanga kuzadzika kuna Mambo Nebhukadhinezari pachake. Kunyange zvazvo aiva mambo aizivikanwa zvikuru—kufanana nemuti wainge wakareba kusvika kudenga—akazotemwa ‘kwenguva nomwe.’ Unoyeuka here zvakaitika?

Jon: Aihwa handichayeuki.

Cameron: Horaiti. Bhaibheri rinoratidza kuti Nebhukadhinezari akambopenga kwemakore manomwe. Panguva iyoyo, akanga asingakwanisi kutonga samambo. Asi pakazopera nguva nomwe, Nebhukadhinezari akava munhu kwaye ndokutanga kutongazve. *

Jon: Horaiti, zvawataura zvose ndazvinzwa. Asi zvose izvi zvinei neUmambo hwaMwari uye negore ra1914?

Cameron: Kuzvitaura muchidimbu, uprofita uhwu hune kuzadzika kuviri. Hwakatanga kuzadzika Mambo Nebhukadhinezari paakambomira kutonga. Hwakazozadzika kechipiri utongi hwaMwari pahwakambomiswa. Saka kuzadzika uku kwechipiri ndiko kune chokuita neUmambo hwaMwari.

Jon: Unoziva sei kuti uprofita hwacho hune kuzadzika kwechipiri kune chokuita neUmambo hwaMwari?

Cameron: Kutanga, pane chimwe chinhu chatinoona muuprofita hwacho. Maererano naDhanieri 4:17, uprofita hwacho hwakapiwa “kuti vanhu vapenyu vazive kuti Wokumusorosoro ndiye Mutongi muumambo hwose hwevanhu uye kuti anohupa waanoda.” Waona here mashoko okuti “umambo hwose hwevanhu”?

Jon: Ehe, zvanzi “Wokumusorosoro ndiye Mutongi muumambo hwose hwevanhu.”

Cameron: Ndizvozvo. Unofunga kuti ndiani ari kunzi “Wokumusorosoro”?

Jon: Ndinofunga kuti ndiMwari.

Cameron: Ndizvozvo. Saka izvozvo zvinotiratidza kuti uprofita uhwu haungotauri nezvaNebhukadhinezari chete. Hunobatanidzawo “umambo hwose hwevanhu”—kureva kutonga kunoita Mwari vanhu vose. Uye izvozvo zvine musoro patinotarisa uprofita hwacho tichifunga zviri kutaurwa.

Jon: Unorevei?

Cameron: Bhuku raDhanieri rinotaura nezvechinhu chimwe chete kakawanda. Rinoramba richitaura nezvokugadzwa kwaizoitwa Umambo hwaMwari huchitungamirirwa neMwanakomana wake, Jesu. Somuenzaniso, ngatidzokei kuchitsauko chechipiri. Ungaverenga here pana Dhanieri 2:44?

Jon: Horaiti. Panoti: “Zvino mumazuva emadzimambo iwayo, Mwari wokudenga achamutsa umambo husingazomboparadzwi. Umambo hwacho  hahuzopfuudzwi kune vamwe vanhu. Huchapwanya, hwogumisa umambo hwose uhwu, uye ihwo huchamira nokusingagumi.”

Cameron: Waita hako. Unofunga kuti vhesi iyi iri kutaura nezveUmambo hwaMwari here?

Jon: Handisi kunyatsoziva.

Cameron: Horaiti, ona kuti vhesi yacho inoti Umambo uhwu “huchamira nokusingagumi.” Izvozvo zvinogona kuitwa neUmambo hwaMwari chete, kwete nehurumende yevanhu chero ipi zvayo, handiti?

Jon: Yaa, ndinofunga kudaro.

Cameron: Ona humwe uprofita huri mubhuku raDhanieri hunotaura nezveUmambo hwaMwari. Huri pana Dhanieri 7:13, 14. Huchitaura nezvemutongi aizogadzwa, uprofita hwacho hunoti: “Akapiwa ushe nokukudzwa noumambo, kuti vanhu, mapoka emarudzi nemitauro vamushumire vose. Ushe hwake ushe hunogara nokusingagumi, husingazopfuuri, uye umambo hwake ndohuya husingazoparadzwi.” Pane here zviri muuprofita uhwu zvakafanana nezvatamboverenga?

Jon: Pataurwa nezveumambo.

Cameron: Ndizvozvo. Uye hausi umambowo zvahwo. Ona kuti panoti Umambo uhwu hwaizova nesimba pamusoro ‘pevanhu, mapoka emarudzi nemitauro.’ Izvi zvinoreva kuti Umambo uhwu huchatonga pasi rose.

Jon: Asi ehe nhai, ndanga ndisingambozivi kuti ndizvo zvinorehwa nerugwaro rwacho.

Cameron: Onawo zvinotaurwa neuprofita hwacho: “Ushe hwake ushe hunogara nokusingagumi, husingazopfuuri, uye umambo hwake ndohuya husingazoparadzwi.” Mashoko aya akafanana neuprofita hwatichangobva kuverenga huri pana Dhanieri 2:44, handiti?

Jon: Ehe, akafanana.

Cameron: Ngatimbodzokororai muchidimbu zvatataura kusvika pari zvino. Uprofita huri muchitsauko 4 chaDhanieri hwakapiwa kuitira kuti vanhu vazive kuti “Wokumusorosoro ndiye Mutongi muumambo hwose hwevanhu.” Mashoko aya anonyatsoratidza kuti uprofita hwacho hune kumwe kuzadzika kwakakura kupfuura kuzadzika kwahwakaita kuna Nebhukadhinezari. Uye mubhuku rose raDhanieri, tinowana uprofita hunotaura nezvekugadzwa kweUmambo hwaMwari huchitungamirirwa neMwanakomana wake. Saka unofunga kuti zvine musoro here kuti titi uprofita uhwu huri muchitsauko 4 chaDhanieri hunotaurawo nezveUmambo hwaMwari?

Jon: Ndinofunga kudaro. Asi handisati ndaona kubatana kwazvinoita na1914.

Cameron: Horaiti, ngatidzokezve kuna Mambo Nebhukadhinezari. Aimiririrwa nemuti pakazadzika uprofita hwacho kekutanga. Akambomira kutonga muti wacho pawakatemwa ndokusiyiwa kwenguva nomwe—ndipo paya paakambopenga. Nguva nomwe idzodzo dzakaguma Nebhukadhinezari paakava munhu kwaye ndokutangazve kutonga. Pakuzadzika kwechipiri kweuprofita hwacho, utongi hwaMwari hwaizombomiswa—asi kwete nokuti Mwari aizenge akundikana.

Jon: Unorevei?

Cameron: Munguva inotaurwa muBhaibheri, madzimambo evaIsraeri aitonga muJerusarema ainzi ainge ari ‘pachigaro choumambo chaJehovha.’ * Aimiririra Mwari pakutonga vanhu vake. Saka utongi hwemadzimambo iwayo hwaimiririra utongi hwaMwari. Zvisinei, nokufamba kwenguva, pamadzimambo iwayo vakawanda vacho havana kuzoteerera  Mwari uye vanhu vakawanda vavaitonga vakaitawo saizvozvo. Mwari akaita kuti vaIsraeri vakundwe nevaBhabhironi muna 607 B.C.E. nemhaka yokusateerera. Kubvira ipapo, muJerusarema hamuna kuzova nemadzimambo aimiririra Jehovha. Mupfungwa iyoyo, utongi hwaMwari hwakambomiswa. Hameno kuti zvandataura zviri kunzwisisika here?

Jon: Yaa, zviri kunzwisisika.

Cameron: Saka mugore ra607 B.C.E. ndimo makatanga nguva nomwe, kana kuti nguva yaizombomiswa utongi hwaMwari. Paizopera nguva nomwe idzodzo, Mwari aizogadza mutongi mutsva kuti amumiririre—panguva ino munhu wacho aizotonga ari kudenga. Ndipo paizozadzika humwe uprofita hwatinoverenga muna Dhanieri. Saka mubvunzo unokosha ndewokuti: Nguva nomwe dzakaguma riini? Kana tikagona kupindura mubvunzo iwoyo, tichaziva kuti Umambo hwaMwari hwakatanga kutonga riini.

Jon: Horaiti. Rega ndimbofungidzira tione—nguva nomwe dzacho dzakaguma muna 1914, ndizvo?

Cameron: Ndizvozvo chaizvo! Wagona.

Jon: Asi tinozviziva sei izvozvo?

Cameron: Paaiita ushumiri hwake achiri panyika, Jesu akaratidza kuti nguva nomwe idzodzo dzainge dzisati dzaguma. * Saka dzinofanira kunge dzaiva nguva refu zvikuru. Nguva nomwe idzi dzakatanga pachine mazana emakore kuti Jesu auye panyika, uye paakadzokera kudenga dzakaramba dzichienderera mberi kusvikira pane imwe nguva. Yeukawo kuti zvinorehwa nouprofita huri muna Dhanieri zvaisazozivikanwa kutozosvikira “kunguva yokuguma.” * Sezvineiwo, kumakore ekuma1800, vadzidzi veBhaibheri vakatendeka vaida chaizvo kuziva nezveuprofita uhwu nehumwewo ndokubva vanyatsohuongorora. Vakatanga kunzwisisa kuti nguva nomwe dzaizoguma mugore ra1914. Uye kubvira ipapo zvinhu zvainge zvava kuitika pasi rose zvairatidza kuti Umambo hwaMwari hwainge hwatanga kutonga kudenga muna 1914. Ndiro gore rakatanga mazuva okupedzisira, kana kuti nguva yokuguma. Ndinozviziva hangu kuti zvandataura zvakawandisa kuti unyatsozvibata zvose . . .

Jon: Ndizvozvo. Ndichatozozviverengazve kuti ndinyatsozvinzwisisa.

Cameron: Usanetseke hako. Zvakanditorerawo nguva yakati rebei kuti ndinzwisise uprofita uhwu uye kuzadzika kwahwo. Asi ndinofunga kuti zvatakurukura zvakubatsira kuona kuti zvinotaurwa neZvapupu zvaJehovha nezveUmambo zvinobva muBhaibheri.

Jon: Yaa ndazviona. Ndagara ndinofarira hangu kuti zvamunotaura munozvitora muBhaibheri.

Cameron: Ndinoona kuti newewo une chido chacho. Sezvandambotaura, izvi zvakawandisa kuti uzvinzwisise zvose panguva imwe chete. Pamwe uchiri nemimwe mibvunzo. Somuenzaniso, taona kuti nguva nomwe dzine chokuita neUmambo hwaMwari uye kuti dzakatanga muna 607 B.C.E. Asi tinonyatsoziva sei kuti nguva nomwe idzi dzakaguma muna 1914? *

Jon: Yaa, ndizvo zvacho zvandiri kuda kuziva izvozvo.

Cameron: Bhaibheri pacharo rinotibatsira kuti tione kureba kwenguva nomwe. Ungada here kuti tizoongorora nyaya yacho pandichadzoka? *

Jon: Zvinoita.